but the american economy suffers from that kind of situation. so those are some of the handicaps and some of the things that contribute to the culture that, i think, is not receptive right now to innovation and those sorts of things, and i'm sure i'll get to talk about that later and turn it on over to you. >> okay. bobby, you have developed shopping mauls across the country including the city creek center in salt lake city. what has been your experience with government? >> complicated. phil talks about the culture of government really is, i mean, if it's not broken, it's certainly misguided. you know, for a company to be successful, you absolutely have to have a strong culture. and i think we've sort of argued at times what the purpose of government is. and it's really trying to sort of understand what that purpose is that the constituents are always pulling themselves apart at. because the agenda moves so much as you talk through a process. i mean, you mentioned dodd-frank. you mentioned sarbanes-oxley. or sarbanes-oxley which is, you know, do